2014 - Oredigger Classic - CSM Campus

Date: 

Saturday, March 15, 2014

event_type: 

29 Comments

Agreed. The organization of

Agreed. The organization of this race was poor - it was fiasco to not have any results posted after the race - and still no results yet. It's great to support the CSM cycling team, but you have to do the due diligence if you sponsor a race and collect all of those fees.

$12,000 in the Bank

Let's say the organizers make $12,000 GROSS to do a very simple task. close one road, and know how to use a timing system. That is it. Clowns will pay money to simply get a result on the internet. That is all they want, and timely. For $40 each, I will say "start, stop" and give you a time and place. This is the best money-making model yet, and this organizer blew it. I say boycott them forever.

tuff luv

If you're not on the podium and it's not a "series" race, what difference does it make if you were officially listed as DNP? It just lets folks know you didn't finish on the lead lap. Besides, it's the race experience that matters most, right?

Oh, that's right... you can't brag about it or share your "online" results w/ friends/family/coworkers.

Missing the point

My point being, cat 4s should have their own start time, they shouldn't be expected to compete with cat 3s in a crit, or any other race for that matter. Of course cat 4s are going to DNP against cat 3s. That's why there is a distinction between a cat 3 and a cat 4. 4s after all are the largest category. I know, you want to keep the number of start times as low as possible, but if any category deserves it's own start time, it's cat 4. Anything worth doing is worth doing right, so the saying goes.

A few thoughts

To Randy Savage - I don't get why so many people are down on folks who want to know how they placed, even if they are way off the podium. They trained, they showed up, they paid up, they didn't quit, and they want to know how they stacked up against their piers. When you are hanging on by a thread it feels great to say that you got whooped but still beat 50% of the field.

Only a small percentage of racers get near the podium but that doesn't mean the efforts of the rest field are worthless. Everyone races for their own reasons. Each individual's efforts makes the overall race a better experience. If people want to brag online about 26th place to their friends and family they certainly earned the right with the $45 they paid didn't they? (Counter point, we all knew there wasn't a finish camera before we started, and should have kept our expectations for accurate results low.)

To Borabuff - I certainly don't argue with 4s having their own race, but I'll bet the turnout expectations were low or the race day schedule was constrained so they merged for the sake of efficiency.

Bonus trivia fact for the 3/4 race: If you toss out the outlier result of the winner who lapped the field and could probably place with the pros, the other top three finishers were in fact cat 4s. The cat 4s showed the 3s a thing or two yesterday.

Chapeau!

One more point

Well said, Stephen. One point though. Yes, 3 of top 4 were cat 4s, but 7 of the 11 finishers were cat 3s. And Randy Savage, yes it is about the race experience, but I'll tell you it wasn't a fun experience yesterday getting crushed/lapped by a cat 3 halfway through the race. I have a feeling you weren't in that field yesterday as a cat 4 or you'd probably be a little more sympathetic. Ok, I'm done whining, the CU crit this Sunday is also combining the 3s and 4s. I just think that the college race promoters would get even more turnout and thus more money if they gave 4s their own start time. Good luck to the 4s on Sunday, I'll be training on my own trying to compete with the 3s, definitely not paying good money to get crushed by cat 3s.

Here's the thing, I'm not

Here's the thing, I'm not (nor are others, I'd bet) saying that the efforts of the finishers who don't podium aren't meaningful. What I AM saying is that it is the race, not the online posting of results, that matter most. If you finish a race and don't have a sense of how well you did (and I don't mean finishing place) and haven't already felt that sense of satisfaction that you gave your all, then that's on you. When you're really suffering, it feels good to whip half the field. Saying you whipped half the field is self-absorbed/bragging. And no, you don't earn the right to brag about online results just by paying your entry fee.

It seems that the folks who complain about lack of online results are the ones who are diminishing their own efforts as they're the ones who are satisfied only if they can see the proof. Your feelings in the first few meters after the finish line should be all you need. The rest is just gravy.

DNP vs. DNF

Mr Savage, the whole point of a "Race" is to see how you stack up against others. Plain and simple. If I didn't care about that, I wouldn't pay ~$40 per race on top of the nearly $100 in annual license fees now. So to not even score/place nearly 90% of the field (all of whom paid to race) is ridiculous. I've been on/off the podium, won races, and even dropped out before. My results should reflect whether I gritted it out for a top 15 finish, won the frickin thing, or dropped out halfway thru. So when the organizers are too lazy and/or disorganized to even try and score the field, people have a right to complain.

They didn't even bother to distinguish between a DNF and a DNP. Meaning, 12th place is viewed the same as a guy who gets pulled or drops out after 2 laps. How is that fair? Unless YOU were born a pro, most amateurs get a sense of accomplishment and pride that comes from a place next to their name after 50 minutes of racing. It's also nice to follow your progression, seeing a 50th/50 turn into a 5th/50..

You say it's the "race" that matters and not the results, but wtf is a race without results?? Maybe in your world that makes sense but I'd venture to say here on planet earth those aren't mutually exclusive bud.

BRAC Camera?

Too bad BRAC can't sell off part of the chip timing system and buy a few Go-Pro Cameras for promoters to use. They have $300K in assets, so a thousand bucks for a small camera/monitor system would be nice. Riders paid $2.50 each to BRAC for what? Other states do this for less fees.

The Promoters are responsible for results.

Promoters are responsible for results. They can hire top notch race results companies or not.

Without Limits is top notch with Race Rite.

Boulder Cup is so CHEAP that a race that should have chip timing does not.

BRAC supply officials to be the impartial arbiter of sport so these events are true competitions.

On the flip side......

BRAC is also around to help the cycling community. BRAC has to play both sides of the coin.

Each Chief Referee should have a small race kit including a camera, recording device, and playback. Pretty cheap over all.

Randy RULES!

Thanks to Randy for standing up and reminding everyone what mass start bike is all about. That's doing your best to do your job in the race. If your race revolves around an online result, you are sorely missing the point of racing and I would be surprised to see you racing in 5 years. This concept of place matters over execution and experience in races has been degrading local racing here in CO for a decade. Hearing what people are expecting from a bunch of college kids trying to help get their team to nationals clearly demonstrates this lack of understanding of core fundamentals of the sport.

Good luck to all you results seekers. I mean that. If you can someday grasp the difference between results and accomplishment there is some hope for you long term.

Randy I look forward to seeing you on the start line for years to come.

Wow

The fact people keep voting thumbs down on this furthers my point. The new breed of racer seems to run a computer based life that lacks understanding of the importance of time and experience on the bike. Keep voting it down and showing me that your online world (results) is more important than what you do in a race.

Right on, Old Man. And R.

Right on, Old Man. And R. Savage. Back in the day, IF you were at a fairly big race, you MIGHT see your name in the printed results in the back of Velonews or Winning magazine, a month or more after the race happened. Wasn't any such thing as online results for at least the first 15 years I raced. These days, I admit I check online results of races I have done in the past and didn't do this year, or check races in areas where I've lived/raced before, just to see how old friends are doing. As for checking online for my results of races I did yesterday, I truly could not give a rat's ass about that. I know how I raced and within a general range, how I placed. The experience is the thing, the online results, meh... not so much.

another old man, different view

You are too old to believe everything you think, ie the thumbs down thing proves your point???, nothing wrong with progress, expecting to see results simply means that, in no way does it refer to rule #5, they take a fee, accurate results are part of it, maybe not the most important part of the race, but a part nonetheless, post em in a timely manner, no excuses

Hey Old Man...

I can't wait to join you and Randy at Ride the Rockies, Elephant Rock, Copper Triangle and all of the other wonderful rides where results don't matter. All 3 of us can ride together for the sake of "accomplishment" and not care who wins or gets last place. (note: there is absolutely nothing wrong with this btw)

My point is, r-e-s-u-l-t-s are primarily what distinguish a race from a ride (fundraiser, group ride, solo ride, etc.). Results keep track of the winners and losers. I'm not saying racing is better than riding (I do both) but my expectation is that when I sign up and pay for a race, I expect to see the results. Otherwise, I might as well have joined in the local group ride or even better, participated in a fundraiser ride (again, nothing wrong with either of these).

Also, when I refer to "results" I mean any medium under the sun that shows 1st - last place and everything in between. I could care less if they're online or taped to a brick wall after the race.

I can almost agree with a

I can almost agree with a couple of your points. Like you, I don't care if results are online or taped to a wall. But, if it's not a series race where it's important to verify my exact placing (assuming I'm in the points) I don't really care if I know exactly where I finished. 22nd vs 24th vs 29th doesn't matter.

I categorically disagree that results are what differentiate between a ride and a race. There are tons of folks out there who treat rides like races and want to see their exact finish time/place for whatever charity ride they just finished. They may even ride those events as if they're racing the other entrants. What differentiates those events from races is not whether you finished in front of someone, but whether that someone is competing against you and the other entrants. I understand people wanting to know how long a ride took for them, but hey, they can time that themselves. To get a finishing place seems silly to me. If the majority of entrants in a ride are just treating it as a ride, it doesn't matter one bit how many people finished in front or behind you. Who cares if you beat someone who wasn't trying to beat you?

Races are different, as you are trying to beat others who are trying to beat you. Now, I realize this sounds like an argument for full race results down to the last finisher, but it's not. As I said above, the exact placing isn't really relevant to me as long as I gave my best effort,and have a general idea as to where I finished (top third, bottom third, whatever...).

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