2013 - Colorado CX Championships

Check out this video clips below. Some great bike racing action from all different categories of racers. Looked like two epic days of cyclocross racing.

Results

- Day 1
- Day 2

Photo Credit: SportifImages

Photos

- SportifImages
- Racer Shots
- Terri Smith
- Shot Williams - Saturday
- Shot Williams - Sunday
- HMG Photos
- Bo Bickerstaff
- Green Curry
- Pedal Dancer

Video

State CX Championship 2013 highlights from John Deibert on Vimeo.

2013 Colorado State CX Championships - 45+ 4 from Dale Riley on Vimeo.

Course Description
An amazing Colorado course! Flowing, wide Course, allowing for plenty of passing and multiple lines. Stair run-up, barrier barrage, and punishing grass section. Paved climbs mixed in with technical off camber descents and power sections guaranteed to challenge every level of rider.

There will be a SM 5 race at the same time as the SM4 race. SM5 Will start behind the 4's and race at the same time. This will give beginners the experience of racing in a state championship race. No state designation for this event. Registration is same day with no day of penalty.

Race Flyer

Date: 

Saturday, December 14, 2013
Sunday, December 15, 2013

event_type: 

89 Comments

Wow, try reading your own

Wow, try reading your own posts before submitting. You keep talking about what some "top" juniors can do, when the rest of us are talking about why not to force all juniors to do the same. Let's clear it up: top juniors may move up, but not all juniors should move up , so the rules allow for, but do not mandate upgrades for juniors. I hope I wasn't typing too fast for you.

Mandatory vs Voluntary

Mandatory upgrades for juniors are a bad idea for the same reason mandatory sentencing guidelines are a bad idea. Circumstances can vary so much from one racer to the next, what's good for one Jr. racer may be an absolutely horrible idea for another.

Your points about TOP Jr racers are by and large legit, and in those cases where it is determined that the Jr racer is both physically, mentally, and emotionally ready for higher level racing, it makes sense for them to upgrade whether they're setting the curve as you put it or meeting the minimum points for a voluntary upgrade.

However, no matter how unlikely, the potential exists that a really talented Jr racer can indeed set the curve in the 3s but be wholly unprepared either emotionally or perhaps even physically for the additional rigors of elite racing. A mandatory upgrade would likely be disastrous for such a racer.

Thus, there a provisions for voluntary upgrades for Jrs, but no requirements for mandatory upgrades.

Expert? Hah!

No one is talking about egos. Just curious, how many juniors would you estimate you've coached over the last, say, five years? I'm sorry, I didn't get that. Zero? That's what we all thought.

v/r
Sanjay

Okay, hold on.

Okay, hold on.
We have two junior girls in the 3's with more then 25 points. They are 12 and 15 years old. So are they going to be up in the 50's by the end of next year and that is still okay to be racing in the 3's? Racing multiple categories a day each weekend. I don't think the people advising them are worried about burning out.
The first 6 people on the men's 3's upgrade list (except one) are juniors and are at 19 points or above, the top with 28 points.

A point being lost here is how is anyone else going to upgrade out of the 4's or 3's if these very talented juniors are taking the top spots with all the upgrade points. Maybe exclude the juniors from the upgrade points all together then if the points don't matter. They matter to some of the other people who may want to upgrade and keep pushing to be better.
Some might say they just need to beat the juniors to get those points but that may be very difficult to do given the talent pool around here. If the juniors aren't going to be held to any standard regarding upgrade points then why even give them the points?

I also think there is something to be said for the parents wanting to see their child on a podium every weekend rather then racing as hard as they can and not winning anything...... What happens when they do upgrade or start racing open when they're 16, 17, 18, etc. and get smoked but they have never not been on a podium? I have seen this happen to people and they quit because they don't know how to handle not being at the front or winning a race. Guess what? I have never seen a podium in a bike race and the majority of people don't. That is part of the really hard thing to accept about cycling You can work your butt off and do everything right and there always seems to be somebody better. That is why it is such a true joy to see someone win that has never won a race. They have put so much time and effort into it.

worth considering

Okay, so Jr.s don't have mandatory upgrade requirements and it seems quite a few folks think that some of the more talented Jr.s, especially in the 3s, should voluntarily upgrade. I suppose there could be a compromise of sorts. No mandatory upgrades for the Jr.s, BUT, once a Jr racer has accumulated enough points to reach the mandatory upgrade threshold for Seniors, their placings no longer count in the awarding of points for a given race. Since the only reason they're allowed to continue to race in the group is that they weren't subjected to mandatory upgrade requirements, it's almost (key word: almost) as if they're really one cat higher but are being allowed to continue in the lower cat. That way their continued participation in the races for their category, which by many people's views they shouldn't be allowed to race in as they've clearly demonstrated that they've dominated the racing, won't hold back the racers who haven't met the upgrade standards yet and who are competing for points.

But, be careful what you ask for. As has been so Savagely pointed out before, if you're not really earning your points against the top competition, jumping up in category is going to be a big problem. I speak from experience. A few years ago I was mandatorily upgraded in my age group for mountainbike racing from cat 2 to cat 1 (sport to expert) based on results earned while doing some races back home against very small fields and very limited competition. Subsequently, I've finished DFL in every cat 1 race I've done.

I'm a big believer in racers moving out of the beginner categories as quickly as possible. I'm not as big a supporter about people upgrading, Peter Principle-style, into a category well above their abilities. To go from 3 to 2 is a big step, you should earn it. Maybe next year, we can have the cat 1/2 races listed as cat 1/2/3 (keeping the 3s races separate, mind you) so that any 3 that thinks they're ready to move up can give it a go and see where they stand without being stuck in the cat 1/2 field for an entire year wishing they could downgrade.

Hold on again. To Savage's

Hold on again. To Savage's comment as well. If you have a junior cat 3 winning 5 races in a year you are not "racing the top competition" for a cat 3. You are racing someone who has cat 2/open race speed and is sand bagging in the 3's.

If these kids were 25 years old EVERYONE would be pissed off on here that they were sand bagging.

Also a comment about Pete's post related to the juniors being able to write the results before the race is even run in the 15/16 category. The same thing is happening in the 3's race. It is the same kids at the front every weekend with maybe Andrew Harbuck mixed in. What is the difference?

And another comment. The women's races are the same time length no matter what you category you race. What's the argument that these girls can't handle the women's open race?

I am not even effected by this as I am a master's racer, but to me this is a right vs. wrong thing. I was a high level basketball player and my parents never put me in a lower league so I could win. I played with college students from CU and drove to Denver to some sketchy parts of town to play pick up games against people better then me. We talk about getting better by racing and riding with people better then you. I don't think we are helping these kids by keeping them in categories that they are not being pushed by other riders and winning by over a minute.

Joe, it seems you're stuck on

Joe, it seems you're stuck on worrying about the actions of a few, bolstered by stories of your youth, and find it unfair that the top Jr/3 racers should move up. Perhaps they should. Perhaps. The thing is, what's good for those few racers may not be right for the vast majority of Jr racers. If there's a beef with those few racers sandbagging, fine... bring it up with them, their parents, and their coaches (assuming they have one).

We shouldn't be talking about making a change in the rules to deal with the situation revolving around 3 or 4 Jrs as opposed to the population of Jr racers as a whole.

Frankly, it seems that most of the folks complaining about the Jrs not upgrading are not concerned one bit about the Jrs, they just want it easier for them to place well. I'm sure you can admit, this is a horrible reason to change a rule that would affect hundreds of Jr racers.

Oooh, yeah...

Oooh, yeah...

In the first go 'round, 3 Jr's mandatory upgrade. Then, the next the Jr's who've also been schooling you will get their points, and they'll upgrade. Next, 7th-9th Jr's (also been schooling you) will get the remainder of the points for the season. You ain't getting any points, anyway.

Hate to lay that tough love on you, but the Macho Man keeps it real.

Listen up, Hulkamaniacs

You can't bitch about Jr's not upgrading 'cause they should want to race the best competition possible without coming off a little hypocritical. You want 'em out of your category so you can race against only the lesser talented 3s. Shouldn't YOU want to race against the best competition?

Well there's the crux. I don

Well there's the crux. I don't agree with them not being required to upgrade.

Trying to define my argument that I am whining because I want upgrade points just doesn't fly as it doesn't effect me.

Interesting debate tactic trying to be used by Savage but it only works when the people listening aren't paying attention or don't think critically. I have more faith in our cycling community then that. Or...he is just trolling the board.

And yes once in a while I will race the Sr. 4's based on the time it runs. I will also race both races at States. Unfortunately I have to work many Saturday's so I race whichever category falls earliest in the day so I can make it to work in the afternoon. This year that is the 35+ 4's but other years that has been the Sr. 4's. Either way I haven't been effected by this if that is what your getting at.

Joe, I've read all the

Joe, I've read all the comments between your earlier post, my response, and your most recent response. I don't see where anyone has said you were whining. I do see where there are accusations of whining by those who just want the Jrs out of their way so they can get upgrade points more easily. Like you said, this doesn't affect you, so those comments don't apply to you.

One point I was trying to get across earlier, but apparently failed at, deals with the entire population of Jr racers, not just the top Jr racers. And by entire population, I was referring to nation-wide, not just here in CO. Sure, many of our top Jr 3s can handle racing in the typical CO open class race. Those same Jrs probably can't handle racing in the pro/1/2 field at any of the larger races. Just because they were able to beat (handily and routinely) a field of mostly 30-somethings in the 3s races doesn't mean they should be forced into the 2s.

And while we may not see many fast Jr 3s here who can't handle the speed/duration of the typical CO open races, there are plenty of places in the country where 'cross isn't quite as popular or as competitive as it is here and a Jr racing in the 3s in those states could likely find themselves with a bunch of upgrade points after racing against an even less talented field of 3s than we see here in CO. Putting them up against an elite field would be problematic.

The USAC rules on upgrade criteria for Jrs apply to the national population of licensed Jr racers, and were not nor should not be structured to deal with 5 kids here in CO who are tearing it up.

Notwithstanding your (or my) views on this, or Expert's or the Rock or Superfly Snuka or whoever's declarations on this, the one voice in the thread we can likely all agree is most valid,would be Pete Webber's.

Maybe next year, we can have

Maybe next year, we can have the cat 1/2 races listed as cat 1/2/3 (keeping the 3s races separate, mind you) so that any 3 that thinks they're ready to move up can give it a go

except for the part where, if you're talking about cyclocross, which is what I think the majority of this thread is referring to, that's totally not the case. SM Open (and SW Open for that matter) is just that. OPEN. Anyone of any category may race in it. I know of several 3s and 4s who have this year.

I think the bigger issue is that SM3 should be one of the larger / deeper categories and isn't. I feel like this region should run a Masters Men 1/2/3 and a Masters Men 3/4 field tops (and maybe raise the age to 40+ too since 35+ fails to have much meaning anymore; see: Sven Nys / Katie Compton). I am in my late 40s and don't race Masters because I don't believe in it; if you can no longer hang in your category then guess what? You have another option: downgrade. When I'm out there getting schooled by riders a third my age, I look at that as an indication that I need to train harder, quit drinking so much beer and raise my game, not that the competition is "too hard" or that the middle schoolers who're trouncing me are "sandbagging" by competing with me.

wow, I didn't realize that

wow, I didn't realize that was the case already. Really makes you wonder why more of the 3s, especially the super fast Jr 3s, don't try their luck against the 'open' racers more often. I think the comments about splitting 1s and 2s into separate races would help a lot with getting faster racers out of the 3s.

Juniors are where they belong

Im not one to post on forums/pages but had to reply here. I was a 3 battling it out with the juniors this year. The way I look at it is they made me a better rider through and through. As tough as it was being beaten by 15yo kids I knew I was racing against the up and coming talent in the sport.

Being a coach of young athletes myself (swimming) I understand that some juniors may be ready for an upgrade, some not, both mentally and physically. USAC is there to protect the future of the sport and I believe they are doing that with the upgrade rule as frustrating as it may be to the older riders.

Randy Savage.. I agree. Dont want to be beat? Stop whining, train harder and beat them. Is it hard, yes. Is it supposed to be easy? No. What fun would that be!

It seems like a lot of these

It seems like a lot of these issues would easily be resolved by dumping the plethora of age related lower categories and adding a standalone cat 2 race. All of the talk is about an insurmountable jump and sandbagging b/c there is nowhere to go. Add the place to go and problem solved.

The People's Eyebrow

How would dumping 40 or 50 more whiney 35+ cat 3s into the Sr 3s make things any better? Any more folks whining about getting beat by a bunch of prepubescent teens and my head is going to explode. Can you smell what the Rock is cooking?

Actually, if you had a real

Actually, if you had a real cat 2, people wouldn't be so afraid of upgrading. So all of the better cat 3s would upgrade and have their own race. So the "fast" people wouldn't be in the 3s anymore. Granted, I know the 35+ guys seem to be scared of racing 28 year olds in the SM3s b.c they might cause a crash, but that is something else altogether; ability vs age.

There are enough cat 1s to

There are enough cat 1s to make a good race. Give 'em their own race, let the better cat 2s have their own race and the better 2s will earn their way into the 1s. Let the uber-Jr cat 3s move up into the 2s without concern of being crushed by the 1s. Do away w/ 35+ cat 3, letting them ride either in 35+ 1/2/3 or Sr 3.

No extra categories on race day, better experience for the 2s and 3s, plus makes both the 3s and 35+ races bigger, more competitive races.

Sounds pretty good to me.

Nah, no way BRAC will do something that sensible.

SM3 has no depth

Yes there would be more whining, but all the complaining about these juniors and they are winning races with only 20-30 guys in them, a quarter of which are their junior racing buddies. They aren't winning very competitive/deep races. Before I upgraded to PRO/1/2 I would want to be winning deep/competitive races to insure I would be worthy of the upgrade.

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