2012 - Superior Morgul Classic


Flora Duffy & Chris Winn win the over all points so they will get invited to race in the USA Pro Cycling Challenge TT in August! Congrats!

Pro Men's Sprint Finish RR





Come on, Morgul Bismarck, you can do better

So, here's my 2 cents on the one of the "Premier" cycling events in Colorado:

TT course will be closed to traffic (per claim in race guide): Seemed like a lot of traffic to me on the course.
Warming up on TT course not allowed: Not enforced as numerous riders were out there warming up.
No "200m, 100m" to go signs on TT course. Finish line not marked clearly.
Tacky to put the race results up on the sides of the porta-potty. Come on!
Criterium results were mixed and spotty. For example, 35+SW, 45+SW,55+SW and 65+SW were all listed together. Many of the results has no name next to their number, only a question mark? I thought we had registered chip timing.
Medals not engraved nor the name of the event on them

Got a ways to go to be "Premier" in my book.

Agree 100%

My first, Morgul Bismarck Omnium, after all the hoopla I've read, this is how a Premier Gold Race is put on??? I was on the phone talking to my wife, explained we were waiting for results which were going to be taped to a smelly porta potty( she is still laughing)Really, the porta potty??? Total bull if you are from out of town, unfamiliar with the finish, and there are NO 1K , 200 meter signs. I know, you Boulder studs will blame us for not preriding, we refrained because of the flier, silly us. Perhaps my expectations were just so high for this event. I made 2 critical mistakes, thinking there is no way that trailer is the finish, no signs yet, the biggest was not snapping a photo with grown men and women bending down looking for results when a young lady was leaving the port potty, damn it!

This is funny

hahahahahaha yeah the TT was kind of a surprise , the results in the PP where bad , but the results came out fast, so you didn't have to smell for too long .
The critt was awesome rain and all , my race was the last , I was freezing when I was done , So the aca send us home with out results, but it only took about half hour to get em .
The road race was awesome , but there was the first drag in the results , after over 45 mins ,and nothing . about an hour after there they were.
So come on guys let's be a little less b**** about it . yes we paid money ,for late results , but the race was great , no where grand tour level , but for our slow asses was great . lets just hope that we can have more races like this , and no just a bunch of F****** critts .

I am local and did preride

I am local and did preride the course several times. Didn't help because it's was anyone's best guess as to where the finish line would be.

Personally I thought he finish line would be further along, expecting they would be using the trailhead parking near 93 as a staging area (and I dosed my effort using this assumption). Thus confusion set in when I crested the climb and didn't see a banner or anything other than a smattering of cars and a rent-a-truck parked off the road at the bottom of the hill.

Us boulder studs aren't

Us boulder studs aren't blaming you for not pre-riding, we're just laughing at you because you're so concerned where results are posted and not that they were posted correctly and quicker than any other race this season. Especially when there were high winds. Thanks for the comedy.

bet you miss out on most jokes,

never was there a mention of how quick(or not) the results were posted, nothing at all about that in my post, only where, the winds?? that is confusing as the Mix 1 Boulder Ortho, and the real Amg. guys were telling me how great the conditions were, seemed fine to me, give you the benefit of the doubt the winds were horrible early, wasn't there. Where was your opinion about the signs for the finish??? Premier Gold event and all, and what about that wait on the wall, two hours an, fifteen minutes and i was sure listening to a lot of boulder teams bitch about that, and yes i did wait to get on the podium, You??

Haystack Mountain TT, a

Haystack Mountain TT, a premier gold time trial event had the same finish line set-up and didn't even come close on the start house atmosphere. Raced at 4:10 and winds were gusty on 128, not horrible, but blowing. Both events were stellar and I'm already looking forward to 2013. Complainers will complain

Premier Gold Race, not sure

Premier Gold Race, not sure what that means? I guess a high bar to bitch about. I have been involved in race promotion and I bet the race promoter paid 20K plus to pay all the State Patrol and Boulder County Police to work all day on a Sunday. Yes it was $115 to race 3 Gold Level races. That is about what is is for a night at the last Best Western I stayed at. I did a one day Xterra one time and the entry fee was $350, now that's Gold Level! A one day lift ticket at Vail is $100. I have been racing on the front range a long time. I am grateful for this event, warts and all and do not feel short changed 1 dime.

Outstanding Time-Trial

I'd like to thank Superior Morgul for an outstanding time-trial. This was the first time I've ever competing in a point to point TT where my results beat me back to the finish line (45+2), quickly followed by an e-mail link 10 min latter to the overall online page. For those out of towners looking to complain ask yourself how often you get to roll out of the US Pro Challenge Start house and race a very demanding 10k course. My friend happen to win his category and received a classy leader's jersey and frosted glass plaque, nothing shabby there for opening day.

ACA Chip Timing doesn't work

Notice that the TT results used a different chip timing system that appears to actually work. However, the promoter is required to use a broken system for the crit, and will have to use that same system for the road race. We are stuck with a broken chip timing system that is forced upon all events that want silver or gold status.

People keep saying this. Or

People keep saying this. Or at least one person over and over.

What evidence is there that it doesn't work? Please point out all the times someone has gotten incorrect or no results solely because of the timing chips.

Are you a promoter who has used it and seen it not working? Are you a racer who didn't get results? Are you upset that you had to pay $30?

I heard an interesting

I heard an interesting philosophy expressed in a movie I saw recently, "everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, then it's not the end, yet."

Sure, the chip timing works "eventually", but the whole idea was that it should be nearly instantaneous. Still waiting for the crit results from yesterday, so it must not be the end yet, as it is not okay yet.

3 hours after the RR and no results

So, we waited in the sun at the top of the Wall for our RR results. After 3 hours, we bagged it. How hard would it have been for someone from the BRAC trailer to come over and say, "Hey, we're sorry. We're having problems, etc"? No, it just bad customer relations to make us waste our time. When some of the earlier men's results finally did come over, they were hand written numbers. Superior Morgul official finally did podiums by just asking the racers where they thought they finished.

Obviously, the chip system is kaput and so is BRAC's policy of "Hey, we don't give a damm".

Still waiting for the Omnium results to be posted somewhere.

While I'm on the subject, pretty bush league for Superior Morgul to be a Gold Cup Race, supposedly provide age group points, but not give any sort of age group awards. They lumped the 35W, 45W, 55W and 65W all together, then only provided prizes for the whole group. The 45's plus the 55's are a pretty good size group.

Again, not a "Premier" race........

Did the same thing. Got

Did the same thing. Got second but couldn't wait any longer to stand there in the sun. completely stupid. They said they "forgot to give the start list to the timers" so they didn't know who was who. Ridiculous that this is a gold level race. Not coming out next year.

In Fairness

I posted an earlier comment, about the porta potty, also waited a very long time on that hill, was this the promoter/registration problem, or the chip system? Someone please tell me, because that is what wa going around the "Wall" waiting room, anyone else not carry $ during a race, or is that just me?

Old School

For years the ACA had fought chip timing, then when they finally break down and buy the equipment they go with a system that doesn't work. This should be a no brainer. Running races and triathlons have been using timing chips for almost 20 years. The big European races all use timing chips. ACA seems determined to stick with the old school tradition of doing results on paper. Perhaps they intentionally bought a crappy chip timing unit so they could show that the old school way is the only way. OK, probably not, but if you're going to spend money on something why not buy a set up that has proven itself.

Please point out all the

Please point out all the times that someone got an incorrect result with high speed cameras before the chip timing system was forced. What tangible benefits has the chip timing brought? Where I have a problem is that ACA has dictated that you must use their poorly thought through solution if you want your event to be silver or gold. It adds expense without bringing any benefits.

Timing, etc

Dear All,

Andy Bohlmann, Sand Creek Sports in Colorado Springs here.

I fell a little compelled to chime in about the chip timing now in use.

I am, and alwasys have been, opposed to its purchase and use.

In 2010 we organized a UCI C2 Pro XCT mtb stage race with a $10,000 cash prize list. Obviously, results were imparative as not only the riders, but press and the UCI wanted them w/in 30 minutes.

I had Doug Ashbaugh, D & L sound come down with his big trailer, PA and camera. We used Sportsbaseonline (now gone) for registration.

Doug downloaded the registration info and his camera/timing worked perfectly.

Once the results were posted on the back of his trailer became official, after the 15 minutes, my press person sent them to my extensive media list as well as my entrants and loaded them onto his www.pikespeaksports.us site. That was at 15 minutes 10 seconds after posted! Flawless reg-results process!

We also did the 2010 ACA Colorado Senior Road Race Championship at the Air Force Academy.

For that race I used MadSync for registration and Al MacDonald for camera/timing and results. Again, results were sent to press and riders 15 minutes 10 or so seconds after Official. Again, flawless reg-results process.

This is not hard to do! It just takes a race organizer who knows exactly what they're doing. You've got topay for this...no video camera's, etc.

Now, the City of Colorado Springs is asking about a multiday 2013 race.

If I want any riders at all, I have to be some level of this Gold, Silver or Bronze thing and use the chips. If I go my own route w/o it, I'll have no riders as it has been constantly shown that riders don't come down here for just any race.

The key is not chip timing but strict guidelines/enforcement of a certain level of a registraion through results process. No certain level of camera or timing for a certain level of race, no permit!

It all begins with the registration process!

Anyway, I hope you all have a great season, and with any luck we'll be back in 2013.

Timing chips are useless

Being from Ohio, and having raced all over the midwest at races of all calibers, I can honestly say that I never raced with a timing chip before coming to Colorado. I don't see a reason to have them in the first place, as I've never seen a major problem without them. Just something that adds to the outrageous cost of racing out here in my opinion. $65 for the road race, that's a joke right?

Time some people switch to mountain bike racing

With all this hate of the ACA timing system and cost it just seems like it might be a good time for some to consider mountain bike racing, road tours or even triathlons. Obviously some people are very upset by this which cannot be healthy for them. Why not

Funny you should mention Mtb racing

I was in a Mtb race on Wednesday with chip timing at no extra charge to the racers to wear their chips. They were posting PC generated preliminary results before the last few riders were even done. And this was out in the sticks at the race site!

How many TT's

have you done? Granted the terrain is great, did you do the small incredible well organized Cafe Velo TT? Super hard course, with $ prizes in all categories???? My buddy got me to sign up, it was sick!! Anyone else do that TT??

I did Tri Lakes

If it wasn't the best run event I don't know what would be. I got a personalized email with my start time, results in email as fast as they were posted (or so I found out because I wouldn't even think of looking at my phone for such a thing in a normal event), and it was an excellent course.

Kudos to Cafe Velo

Definately the quickest results, I got back to my vehicle and already ad my time. I just ish that I had been that fast on that course, died after the 200 degree turn. It was a definite tough course, but that is what separates the best riders, right!

Typical ACA

From the unfamiliar chip and accurate result I received on Friday's TT I'm guessing Boulder Racing used a new timing company? Why couldn't we keep that chip all weekend with the same speedy result postings. Instead Saturday we're left with the same ACA chip timing non sense. I feel bad for the Town of Superior and promotion company.

Couldn't use the same system

Couldn't use the same system because ACA requires promoters to use their chip system for crits and road races to be a gold or silver event. TTs don't have the same requirements. A couple events earlier this year chose not to use the chip system and were relegated to bronze events

The full story

I'm fortunate to be close to the timing company that chip timed the Friday time-trial flawlessly. Being privy to the full story I feel compelled to set any rumors or half truths straight as this weekend was marvelous in every regard outside the results from Saturday and Sunday, and in no way should that reflect on the countless hours put in by Boulder Racing. Prior to the time trial Boulder Racing set a level of expectations and protocol that needed to be met. The TT was part of a gold level event and as such required the use of the ACA chip system. The Without Limits/Boulder Racing staff of Lance, Brian, and Tony put their foot down when the ACA chip timer and system could not perform to the level they produce in their triathlon events. Therefore they broke protocol and ACA requirements to the benefit of the cycling community and their chip timing partner, Racing Underground, was brought on board. Unfortunately Without Limits also produced a triathlon on Saturday so Racing Underground could only be brought on board for the first day. Concessions had to be made for operating outside the ACA and they extended their limited trust in the ACA chip timing system for the remaining days. In no way do I hope this post starts a fire storm, but clears the air on what truly happened in an effort to show the enormous energy and effort Without Limits/Boulder Racing is going through to deliver the best possible races. Also being an XTERRA athlete I can assure you that their the best. When it comes to the cycling world there's one aspect outside their control and that's the ACA timing system.

So you are the owner of the

So you are the owner of the Racing Underground then? From what I have heard you have a great system for running and tri races, even TT's. But your system is not set up for field sprints and has no camera. Is that correct?

Racing Underground Responds

I just received an email that I was being brought into a discussion here, so I felt I should weigh in. It wasn't me in the previous post, but all of the info is accurate as far as I know. Sorry to hear there were timing issues on Saturday and Sunday. I know it is as frustrating for the timer as it is for the athletes. I really feel sorry for the Boulder Racing staff - anyone who has raced with them in the past knows they put on quality events. They have no control over the results, but they suffer the wrath when results issues occur.

Our timing system was originally designed for bike racing - it is the same system used in the Tour de France, the Giro d'Italia, and countless other big cycling events. I'm pretty sure they have some big field sprints at those events, but I could be wrong :)

At the time we purchased our equipment, the timers of the TDF had never missed a single rider passing - that may still hold true, but I haven't followed the recent data.

I don't personally own a finish camera, since we don't typically time many cycling events, but two timing companies that I rent equipment to and from do have cameras that I have access to. The company that manufactures our equipment has some amazing software that ties the timing chip data into the finish camera data. I won't go into the details, but here's a website for the tech-geeks (like me).


Their software also allows live data with lap splits to stream to the internet during an event - pretty cool stuff! Yes, the chips are more expensive, but in well over 1 million passings, I have only had 2 missed reads that weren't due to athlete error (like carrying a chip in a jacket pocket).

Timers I know who work lots of bike races with the same system we use have told me that if the timing chips are placed in the same location on every bike, they very rarely have to change the chip-read order after viewing the finish camera.

ACA has used their system for long enough that I can only assume the problems are not related to user error. Perhaps there is an issue with the hardware itself.

Rumor has it that the

Rumor has it that the database was corrupted even before it was entered into the ACA timing system.

The TT was all pre registration with no on site registration. Saturday and Sunday had on site registration with many fingers in the pot.

if that is the case, then why

if that is the case, then why hasn't there been any issues with results and races that didn't use the timing system? deer trail and mead were both downgraded for not using the timing system, yet their results were posted in 15-30 minutes and were online that same evening.

is it the chip rentals that cause the issues? There were result issues at Koppenburg where the timing system was used. It was also blamed on registration forms. But knowing some of the people who were mis-categorized in the results, the did pre-register.

is the database getting corrupted at each even the timing system is used? If it is that fragile, then it's not a very good system.

What if...

So what happens if at the next race everyone who shows to race just takes off their timing chip for the race? Teammates encourage other teammates and no one has it on for the event? Formal protest, we riders stand united and opposed to the crappy timing chip system forced on the membership? It doesn't hurt the promoter as people still show to race, it sends a pretty clear message that we are unwilling to play this game anymore and remind them that ultimately it is the riders who have the final say. Start the pledge here and people be proactive about rallying those at the event that day.

I think the issue is that we

I think the issue is that we whine. but we show up and hand over our cash and leave it to those that actually have to deal with scoring to do what they feel is best. i'm not scoring the races, so it really isn't up to me to say what is or isn't appropriate. yes, it is frustrating that we don't get immediate results. but i bet the people that are on the front lines dealing with these issues know that as well.

It is not getting corrupted

It is not getting corrupted at every race. The KHMTT uses the same system and database and there are no issues. In fact, results are posted during the race and how many people are signed up for that? 500+?

Again no results for SW4 and SW35+

I realize no one cares about these groups of riders but didn't we pay the same amount as the Pro 1-2's. We deserve to have results too.. or maybe pay less to enter races since the organizers decided we didn't deserve our own age groups either.

That they did but they are

That they did but they are totally incorrect other than the top 3-5 finishers. The times no where near match what we had on our computers, the placings are completely wrong, there are women who finished in both the cat4 and the sw35+ with different times but same person. They look completely made up.

c'mon - be fair to the women

It was a wonderful course and great race, but what's with the way you did the women!?! You shouldn't have broken it out on the flyer as 35+,45+,55+, let us sign up by age group, and then just lump us together to give the awards only to top 3 finishers (35+)! That's jacked. We paid a lot of money and it wouldn't have killed you to give us a plastic medal and a sweatshirt. Telling us so we didn't hang around for 3 hours waiting for times would have been a great idea too. Colorado is doing a lot to encourage women racers, but this doesn't help. If the only real SW category is 35+, step up and say so and we'll make our decisions and spend our money accordingly.

There's only a handful of

There's only a handful of races in the state that break out 45+, 55+, and 65+ women for awards. There's simply not enough of us racing the 55+ to warrant a special category. This same company broke out awards for their Koppenberg event. While I appreciated the really cool awards it wasn't necessary to give us awards 3 deep when we barley have 3-7 racers competing. In their defense it was clearly identified on the flyer with the "," meaning one prize list, while the "/" identifies a separate award list. I love awards, but I think we can all agree at our age that we race for fitness, fun, and the challenge of a great course like the Morgul Bismark.

Agreed, but results?

I agree on the awards, the flyer did point out that the older women in the SW35+ were not really racing for awards but against each other and the clock. So that makes it even more frustrating that the results are inaccurate. Did the chips not work at all? Just say so and publish the results as "our best guess" I also recommend teams should keep track of your own results, maybe each team should have their own timing and lap counters at crits in order to provide accurate results to the ACA.

Then there shouldn't even be

Then there shouldn't even be a listing for the SW 45+, 55+, 65+. It should just be 35+. Other races skip the men's 45+4 leaving it up to the men to decide if they want to race in the 35+4 or SM4. Don't list all of the categories and them lump them together as one.

Very well put and I agree. I

Very well put and I agree. I am relatively new to the racing scene and really appreciate that we have an organization that puts on such races and I know their intentions are to maintain high quality. That being said, it is a race and I want accurate results. I believe this was an anomaly. My only complaint is that I waited quite awhile for results (nasty sunburn but beautiful day on top of the Wall) that never came, knowing that we have only 15 minutes to protest results. If there are problems, just let us know we can go home and expect them later. I really enjoy racing with the 35-45-55 - all great competitors and it pushes me to a better effort.